Buying and Owning Tips

Buying and Owner Tips for Bristol V8's - by Clyde Lennon (April 2002)

I have owned a 411 S3 for 4 years and have experience on all of the following items. Mostly I have contracted out all of the work I have mentioned and done some of the more mundane and simple stuff. You do not need a major tool kit, however access to a ramp and hoist is necessary for work under the car as it is lower to the ground than you at first might image and being under it is best done whilst standing!

After reading much of what has been written, I have not repeated some others good and scholarly advice, nor have I cribbed the owners book, but rather seen to it that I pass on learned experience of what is essentially not readily available knowledge. The car is structurally a very complex and sophisticated piece chassis engineering, but uses simple, robust and elegantly reliable suspension, engine, transmission and electrical systems, so that the longevity and cost of ownership should be very competitive to alternatives. The most impressing thing about the car is the sense of wholeness and oneness that becomes apparent after driving the car for several days and several hundred miles. There are no blind spots when piloting the car, it is agile and surprisingly easy to manoeuvre in narrow traffic conditions and is always blisteringly quick with reasonable comfort. Mine is very smooth but firm in suspension, but as I have stated below, certain attributes are less than one would like in any car, even one from 1972.

One could go on forever about various minutia and odds and sods, but I would prefer to concentrate on the most likely causes of angst with owners of these fine cars, especially mine.

Seat Belts: Suggest always (as it is required by law here in UK) to have any front or rear installation thoroughly checked or devised by a qualified engineer. Or try BCL who have clearly had to get certification on their front and rear belts on later models. My 411 has rear lap belts only with welded captive bolts either side of the chassis drive shaft tunnel and outer riggers next to the rear wheels. This is very strong and allows for easy installation, however, I do not have upper sash or retractable in the rear. My front retractable belts use captive bolts either side of drive shaft tunnel and what appears to be re-enforced upper sill/floor mountings using captive bolts out and along the sides of either seat. The retracting web holder is bolted directly onto a 1/4" thick chrome plate bolted (x4) to a re-enforced area of the wheel arch inside the passengers arm rest area. This does not impede on the passengers comfort and was installed either by the factory, or by the previous owner in NZ (Pls note Claude that the owner - Mr Bob Francis, was a fastidious man). I am not sure using the 'B' pillar is a sensible alternative, however, if it were to be used, then a suitable re-enforced mount would need to be installed in a modified arm rest and lower seat area, which would cost more than my above installation, but appear to be factory original (or better!). In addition, I have come across a similar solution for mounting rear retractable belts. This is completed by having long bent ¼ inch stainless plate just below the surface of the rear parcel shelf, running down the back behind the petrol tank to re-enforced mounts on the back of the wheel well. Obviously the lower links are the same as those for a standard lap belt.

Heater & Demisting: It is more than likely that the heating will not work. There are various reasons why this may be the case, but the short list of two main reasons are that the water tap and control are blocked (remove front hose and clean as required), or the internal heating matrix is blocked and corroded. If the latter, then the whole unit needs to be taken out and pulled apart (it is soldered together!) and repaired. This is a specialist job and also means that the internal air direction controls may require servicing as well. It takes several hours (if your are experienced), which explains why SLJ charges around £350-450 to correct one back to perfection (relative term). Whilst out, the area under the heater and indeed the air intake box, which also contains the drain holes for incoming water, may be corroded or at least in a sad state. This is a good time to clean, strip, rust convert (or more), treat, seal and paint before replacing reconditioned unit. You may wish to see what BCL, Brian May or others may charge for replacing one unit for another. Considering the amount of mucking about involved, my advice is to save the pennies and ask someone who has done it several times before to do it, with a guarantee, whilst out of the car, make sure you fix the rest yourself, or at least make the service people do it for you, else you will get a surprise sooner or later. Finally, if the air flow controls or flaps are damaged, this will mean no air, or little air goes where you want. The Bristol unit, although maybe not as efficient as one would like (mine has never worked so I am using others experience here), it is highly sophisticated and compact. Kevin Howard has already written about the air intake area, so for any further advice please refer to his text.

Rear Suspension: V8 Bristols have a very strong and very capable rear live axle set up. Using 3 trailing links and Watts Linkage for lateral location, it not only means good location (5 links plus shocks) under all manner of conditions, it is also very compact, as the rear springs are in fact torsion bars. It is complex, in as much as the following areas need to be checked for wear and unacceptable play as these may cause insecure handling traits and most of all, noisy suspension. They include, suspension arms and upper torque reaction arm bushes, as well as the ones for the Watts linkage. Make sure the outside mounted shock absorbers are also installed with solid bushes and that they are secured tightly, as any looseness (like all such systems), will not provide proper performance and you will have clunks over bumps. Any sagging in the rear end (the rear wheels and bottom of top wheel arch should allow around 3-4 fingers of space when sitting level (my approximation, although there is an exact height you can measure when on a ramp to the correct point on the chassis. I think mine was about 8.5inches or so. The weak link in the rear suspension (IMHO) is with the torsion bar retaining bracket, not changed apparently from the earlier 2 litre six chassis. These snap off across the narrow part of the neck behind the retaining cup head where the floating shaft sits (within a rubber & grease enclosure) and is then connected directly into the self leveling suspension piston. When the self leveling system is removed or decommissioned (as mine was), the rear pistons remain as they are also the mounting points for the torsion bars to use for the push rod (shaft) pivoting point. I will supply a step-by-step procedure for replacing this bracket next time. Cost of parts is only £325 or thereabouts inc. VAT and unique to Bristol. There is a Left and a Right side, so be careful when ordering. I guess the spate of failures the past 18 months or so, as reported to me by SLJ personally, is down to 30-40 years of fatigue, so it's not like it's a major concern, once a new one is installed. Rear shocks must be proper Konis suitably valved for the Bristol experience, so speak to BCL, SLJ or whomever to obtain. I believe they now recommend SPAX (BCL that is). The differential is a standard Salisbury 3.07 and most were LSD (limited slip differentials). Any whining noise means an expensive rebuild and my recommendation is to have it seen to by a differential or gears expert, as these are prone to rapid wear and tear if not set up correctly. Robust, elegantly simple, yet sophisticated and compact live rear axle & suspension assembly.

Front Suspension: This is also sophisticated in as much as it is a double wishbone design, but also very simple in construction. The uprights appear to be straight off a jaguar (XJ series - but I could be wrong - any thoughts gentleman), but the rest is pure Bristol, apart from brakes (Girling/Dunlop in most cases). Kevin Howard rebuilt his and so covered this topic very well, but a few more tips. Check the state of the anti-roll bar from under the car (on a ramp) and make sure it is not bent or buckled and that rubbers in mounts have not perished (lots of clunks will be the result otherwise). As may have been read before, the camber and therefore geometry of the front suspension, is set at the factory by the way the front wishbones are mounted directly to the front chassis. This is highly accurate and from an engineering perspective, very sensible and desirable for consistent and good behaviour as designed. Only toe in and out can be altered at the front, so if you have tracking problems, or tyre scrub and the toe-in/out is to factory specification, either there is extreme wear in front wishbones mounts or there may have been unknown chassis damage from a prior accident. This is very important, as it is an expensive job getting a Bristol chassis sorted.

Bodywork: All aluminium over a steel chassis. Areas to look out for are ones you cannot readily see. All steel chassis areas are prone to rust and this can be very costly (try from around a few thousand pounds to 10-15k, plus). A complete chassis rebuild and body repair can be as high as £20-35k!. Look at obvious areas like the steel outer walls of the inner front wheel arches that form the surround to the engine bays for spare wheel and electrical systems. If these are badly corroded, then look back at chassis in front of foot well, side sills, rear chassis mounting areas and upper chassis for shock mounts. The Body work may reveal small bumps (micro blistering)or 'bubbles' something quite common (even on recently re-sprayed cars). This is due to microscopic moister being trapped below the surface of the paint during spraying expanding afterwards. It may take years to reveal itself and the only solution is a complete bare metal re-spray. So judge whether or not it is serious and take it into consideration when buying, as a complete re-spray ( a proper one) with trim off) will set you back from £8-15k. Bumpers are almost impossible to get (new no longer made), so having a spare is handy, although that will cost from 400-800 pounds or more if re-chromed. If you are to get any re-chroming done, make sure it is triple-plated (copper base, then zinc, then chrome). A bumper bar will cost around 150 pounds to have done in the UK with a wait of approximately 4-8 weeks. Weather sealing is not good around the doors. The car is sealed as per a car with pilarless design, in so much as there is no sealing in the doors themselves, apart from thin fragile slips of rubber around the chrome door frame and along the front and trailing edged of the inside of the door frame. The only door sealing being poorly pressed against the closed door by a surround of roofing brackets that exert very little pressure, plus square rubber on the trailing edge of the rear body work. New seals and proper fitting of the doors will ensure most air will not intrude at speed and water will not get onto the carpets. But I doubt if it can be made perfect.

Interior: This has been written about quite a lot, so I will restrict myself to the items I think are not spoken of as much as they ought to be. We discussed rust above and the one area that I am convinced is often overlooked is the state of the carpet underlay. Bristols have very luxurious carpets and thick (water absorbing) underlay/noise suppression. As the exhaust system runs the length of the car either side of the drive shaft (my model has four pipes from two large down pipes leading from the engine either side). One thing you must do when buying, is to lift up the carpet in front of and behind the front seats. Make sure that there has been no water cascading down from the aforementioned air intake areas and soaking up the carpet and sinking to the lower depths of the underlay. My car had this problem and fortunately it had been professionally restored only 3 years earlier and therefore had newly painted floors. What happens when moister builds up in the underlay, is that the corrosion splits the paint and gets under it directly onto the steel floors. In my cars case, it was minor surface rust, but I took 4 weekends of effort to strip off all paint from the front and rear floor and sill areas and then whilst I had a dry and heated surface, etch primed with anti rust treatment. I then used Hammerite to undercoat and surface finished in gloss black, rock hard and impermeable to water! Next I will be coating in liquid NoiseKiller (http://www.noisekiller.com/) (for UK speak to Steve Bithell http://www.bjacoustics.sageweb.co.uk/)and placing anti-heat, anti-noise matting so that a thinner and more modern underlay can sit between the more modern and hi-tech heat/noise solution and a new set of carpets. Obviously for leather etc. no one can beat Woolies for their products and advice. Much written about this topic already. http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/

Transmission: My car suffered usual automatic tiredness with 2-3 second delay before engaging drive or changing to reverse and also seemed to use a lot of revs at 60-70mph and slurred the changes up the gears. Basically the Chrysler Torqueflite gearbox is a superb and rugged unit and probably one of the best the world has seen and therefore has a store of support and spares. My gearbox was rebuilt by Graham Whitehouse Autos near Birmingham http://www.gwautos.com/ and they can also do a LOCK UP conversion whereby at or above a set speed the torque converter locks and there is no more slippage, giving a slight reduction in engine revs during high speed motorway driving. They can also do a 4-speed ZF auto conversion and have done several Bristols to date. I had my gearbox replaced with a slightly newer second hand one that was then fully rebuilt with stronger torque converter and brand new internals for the gearbox. It has bench tested to handle 500ftlbs and more than 400bhp, so I am pretty happy with it. Cost of a rebuild is from £1200 inc. tax. A 4 speed conversion, drive in / out, from £3750 plus tax! I also recommend re-routing the lower radiator transmission fluid cooler (A single pipe running along the bottom tank of the Bristol's radiator) into a front mounted unit (I got mine from Graham Whitehouse, complete with additional hose and connectors. This does two things, it firstly removes heat from entering the coolest part of the cooled water supply for the engine and also enables more efficient cooling of the transmission fluid.

Cooling System: Much has been written about this subject, however, apart from making sure your engine is not clogged up and or running poorly and that all components in the cooling system are clean, serviceable and in shape, the following should ensure you have no overheating problems. Firstly, make sure you have at least two NEW radiator caps with correct pressure rating (8-9lbs) - keep a spare. Water escaping under this cap before the expansion tank is the most obvious problem for losing water (coolant mixture). Secondly run a 50/50 coolant mixture (I use Blucol). Thirdly, a design change made by Bristol and retro-fitted to many cars - but not mine, is a much larger expansion tank. My tank only holds about 1 ½ pints and if reasonably full, will under pressure from expanded heated coolant, force fluid pass the expansion cap and down the overflow pipe. This is a common problem. It does not mean your car overheats. Certainly means that an inadequate design can be overcome, by fitting a large expansion tank. SLJ supply these, as does BCL. SLJ gets his especially made in brass!. They hold about 1/2+ gallon of coolant, and allow for up to a ¼ gallon of expansion. Remember after expansion comes contraction and if you have lost fluid during expansion, when the coolant temperature subsides and contracts it would normally drawer back the expanded fluid from the expansion tank, which of course it can't if it has been lost down the overflow pipe. Make sure your water pump is working (there are plenty of aftermarket goodies for replacing the pump (bolt on upgrades) for larger capacity or even electrically operated, rather than from the engine driven belt, so that there is more consistent coolant flow and less horsepower robbed off the motor. It is also more reliable and not susceptible to failure form broken belts. Look at http://www.manciniracingcom/ for these and many other goodies. Another cheap item, often overlooked is the thermostatic valve above the water pump and which opens and closes at set temperatures to allow the pumped water to enter the top of the radiator, cool down as it passes through the core and back into the engine from the lower pipe. This is a simple job to replace and costs pennies. Keep a spare or two. Make sure your fans are shrouded and working at the right temperature. Bristols allow you to switch the cooling fans on permanently from within the cabin, but this only works when the ignition is on. A delayed off switch would be good for high temperature stops, however I have not fitted such a device. What is important, is to make sure that the negative earth rheostat switch on top of the radiator (passengers side) is working and that the relay under the drivers side inner guard also works (see an auto electrician if not). These two will ensure that the fans come on and off at the correct temperature. If you make sure all is well as I have stated above, no overheating problems should happen. I have run at 25-32 degrees C ambient temperature and idled and crawled in London traffic and only lost a cup or so of coolant. My only modification recommendation is to fit one of the larger expansion tanks, which should provide a large margin of safety.

Brakes: V8 Bristols will have a master cylinder and dual circuit piping and reservoir on the right side rear bulkhead under the bonnet. There are two power boosters (vacuum) under the front right engine bay, with all the electrical circuits, fuses and battery. Front calipers are dual piston Girling and the rears single piston Girling. I have had my front and rear calipers overhauled and apart from new rubber seals and honing, I have also had the pistons replaced with stainless steel to avoid any future corrosion. The brakes should have a solid (hard) pedal feel and if in excellent condition should be modulated by weight rather than distances traveled. My car pulls up straight and with not shudder at all. Solid (non-vented) discs are on all four corners and soon BCL will offer (I am led to believe)a four piston vented upgrade for the front. I find the existing brakes more than adequate, even if they are not as powerful or as efficient as the Brembos on my 1988 Porsche 928S4. Another wise suggestion is to have all brake pipes seen to as these are prone to being flattened under the car along either side of the inner chassis underneath (especially by sightless mechanics and their jacks), or near and around the front suspension. The handbrake uses a separate (integral) rear set of small pads and cable operated control. The rear rubber casing around the cables wears and finally disintegrates off the cable, exposing them to corrosion and dirt/grime. Best to make sure these are replaced and serviced whenever new disc pads are installed.

Steering: ZF power steering, if working correctly, is one of the pleasures of driving the car. It is simply smooth and delicate with fast response and excellent feedback, without being overly light of touch. However, there are some nasty surprises if the system has any failure or problems, as the steering can load up during use whereupon it may need three arms full of effort to turn. The items needed checking are firstly the pump itself. It is a simple unit, but if the seal between the pump rotor and fluid housing/valve between low pressure and high pressure has leaks under high heat and or seizes, then there will be little assistance being sent back to the steering unit. The pump can be reconditioned for about £115, or a new one for £180-240 depending upon source. I had mine rebuilt by specialists in Birmingham and they made sure it was perfect and even did 30 minutes of severe bench testing under harsh conditions of extreme pressure and heat to ensure a robust and long lasting life. The one failure of ownership is not making sure that the hydraulic fluid level in the steering pump is maintained at or near optimum level. Under high heat and constant use (lots of steering) the pump builds up heat and the fluid will tend to evaporate, so do not think the fluid level just stays without being topped up. If you hear a screeching sound when using hard lock or faster turning, with a little vibration through the wheel, then the pump either has little or no fluid, or is to be considered suspect/worn. Firstly, top up and see what happens. If the steering feel and operation returns to what is expected, then it may be OK, alternatively, be prepared to rebuild the pump. Another problem with the power steering can be air getting into the system, causing the steering to feel very heavy until the revs are increased or the car is driven for a while. This can be caused by poor sealing of the joints of failure of either of the rubber hoses leading to and from the pump to the steering box. Make sure the high and low pressure hoses are fitted correctly if you replace them. To bleed the air from the system, make sure that the fluid is topped up to where it should be, then with the car jacked up with both front wheels off the ground and the engine running, with transmission in PARK!, turn steering wheel left then right a few times, holding the wheel solid on lock for no more than a second each way and then release the air cock on the top of the steering box cover until no more air spurts out, only fluid. Repeat as necessary once or twice more, then top up pump after switching off engine, as required. Usual things about checking ball joints etc. The Bristol ZF steering also has an adjustment controlled from the top of the steering box near the air bleeding cock, that enables the 'feel' and 'weight' of the steering to be adjusted to suit the driver. Mine is set to somewhat firm.

Engine: Lots to talk about here and the http://www.mopar.com/ site and the one mentioned above http://www.maniciniracing.com/ are both excellent references and suppliers of bits and pieces and advice. My best advice for basic good care is the following (simple yet effective):
· Make sure carburetor is in fine shape, properly valved and cleaned
· Make sure air filter is in good shape (try K&N)
· Make sure that the electrical system is in tip top condition (preferably convert to electronic transistorised rather than points in the standard distributor)
· Replace the coil, condenser, all leads and plugs with correct high performance items
· Replace the heavy and inefficient starter motor with a new lightweight reduction geared one (as used in modern V8's and V10's) On my car it now starts almost every time first time and the draw from the battery is about 1/5th of the current to start making it easy for those cold and freezing mornings
· Make sure all exhaust manifolds are not corroded at the down pipe and that all gaskets and seals are as they should be otherwise it is noisy and fumes will escape into the car
· Get the engine rolling-road tuned.
· Consider replacing the Engine Mounts if the drivers side exhaust heat shield bracket is interfering (touching) the steering rod which passes down and into the ZF steering box. This will be a bright metal ring around the bar, showing signs of torque shifting the engine on its mounts.

Otherwise there is not much to do as the valves are hydraulic and self adjusting and the rest of the engine is pretty simple and robust. Just change oil and filters and it should outlast most of us.

· Unless you have it fitted and working, remove all the self levelling kit (pump and piping) from the engine bay

One of the most frustrating things to do to a Bristol V8 is to change plugs and therefore it is not uncommon to have a car running on 7 cylinders! If the car has what appears to be, old plugs in 2 cylinders, then the lazy bugger who did this, or let this happen, may have also forgotten to do other work. It takes up to 10-20 minutes to replace one lead on the second from the front left plug, so make sure this is secure as it also is another loss of spark condition prone to happen from unthinking mechanics.

Electrical: Firstly, it is extremely simple, so find yourself an old fashioned auto electrician and buy him a beer (it will not be a female I am quite sure). Get the entire engine bay wiring replaced if it looks like it has been cooked and or is showing signs of ageing (hard cracked wire plastic). This is a fire hazard, let alone loss of current problem, meaning low voltage to starter, lights, spark etc. This is a relatively easy job. At the same time get the electrician to make it longer and tidier so that it sits properly away from the engine and is clamped within protective ribbed cover as much as possible. Make sure all fuse holders are new and all connections are clean and solid. Replace any faulty relays and have all connections to lights and relays cleaned and spot checked for earth problems. Switches inside the car are very expensive (approx £45 each!) and unique to Bristol, so unless you replace with another type of switch, say from a Jaguar or Bentley/Rolls, all of which will require a new dash (plywood and veneer), the best thing is to dismantle the switches carefully (not losing the internal springs) and refurbish. Once working, you can clean and repaint the letters and varnish them with a hard satin finish to make them look new (I have yet to do mine cosmetically, but they all work). All other parts, lights and horn, etc. are very simple and rugged, so I see very little to be concerned about with the system, except that cleanliness and safety be observed.

These are my opinions and experience only and therefore suggest that a combination of input be used to refine the above into a concise support for 'Buying a Bristol V8'.